Identifying some failure modes is really straightforward, while others can be challenging and require extensive mathematical computations. Intermittent wiring faults occur because of dirty or poor connections, internally broken wiring and damaged wiring insulation. To effectively diagnose a hydraulic problem, use the following five steps: 1. Your email address will not be published. If the fault magnitude is low, the system just needs to be able to endure the fault for an extra time until the fault is cleared by itself. Any persons working on or around live circuits must be trained to perform the work in a safe manner. Wiki User. Or want to train a group in house? Simply look at a circuit as a group of individual components. Fault finding techniques on pieces of electrical power equipment. All the evidence collected must be relevant to the problem in hand. Have a thorough understanding of the system. Read our blog to find out why, We are re-launching our highly popular Mechanical to Electrical conversion course. Proposed Method. Fault diagnosis is an important part of the condition monitoring process, allowing operators to not only detect mechanical irregularities buy also pinpoint the root cause of the issue and carry out repairs accordingly. Identify which parameters need to be evaluated. This is because the increased cost of maintenance is warranted to prevent major fallout that will be way more costly. It does not store any personal data. Applying this approach. 0.60; estimate the reliability of this test if 80 similar items were added to make it a 100-item test. ", "Honestly - the customer support has been fabulous. The purpose of this article is to present an overview of Fault Detection and Diagnostics as they are applied to improve the equipment maintenance process and boost asset reliability. Analyse the reading, 3. The FDD functions by continuously monitoring and analyzing condition monitoring data and detecting any anomalies (if present). The treatment is non-mathematical (apart from Ohm's Law) and all jargon is strictly avoided. We also use third-party cookies that help us analyze and understand how you use this website. Therefore, what questions can you ask that will begin to eliminate the largest group of components? What are the different methods of electrical troubleshooting? bl Our old Maintenance software was very difficult to use and was very expensive.". b,Bdc8DjXB5l,Y5l,&-Vdc1jql,5l,z5l,:5l,G6I#E-rIu-m
ZUFqFu5DF. A circuit enable light on the control cabinet tells you that the start or circuit enable relay is not energized. Examples of Split Half Method. The next question solves the problem. Chiew Seng Chung
Read on to find out more. Gather Information Ask people when & how the fault occurred. In the course of collecting evidence, the investigator has to use the senses of sight, smell, touch and hearing to know what is wrong with an operating system. The perplexed repairmen from the previous shift told me that no matter what they did, the machine continued to blow a small control fuse. Let's take a look at some electrically focused hypothetical examples to further explain this method. Fault evaluation is a significant element of the overall process as it aims to understand the severity of the fault. Half-split again by asking if the card is a jack or higher. You start by eliminating roughly half of the items you are checking, then trying to re-create the issue. Analyse Information decide the probable cause. Preventive Maintenance is done before a failure occurs and consists of maintenance types like: Time-Based Maintenance, Failure Finding Maintenance, Risk-Based Maintenance, Condition Based. It is important to ensure that the machine, equipment or system is functioning normally after the cause of the fault and the fault itself has been dealt with. Ask the three Ws - What, When, and Where. If one is in doubt as to whether anything is relevant, then include it. Analytical cookies are used to understand how visitors interact with the website. For instance, consider the example of TDR testing for underground cable. Sample situations. Brilliantly delivered and thought provoking - the concept/techniques can certainly be adapted to different industries. Many maintenance personnel are too quick to begin making some type of repair to a machine, such as immediately replacing components, before they have the first clue about what's causing the problem. Here, John Saysell, Training Director explains what was involved. Electrical Troubleshooting in Seven Steps. Your email address will not be published. What are the fault finding techniques to be used when the equipment fails to operate correctly? If the conveyor belt will not move but the drive motor is turning, this could indicate a broken belt or problem with a pulley. Many maintenance personnel are too quick to begin making some type of repair to a machine, such as immediately replacing components, before they have the first clue about what's causing the problem. Based on the meta-action unit, this article proposes a comprehensive, q. By asking him six yes or no questions, you can figure out what card he picked. In this short series of blogs we provide some customer examples of how tailored Assessment Centres can provide a much needed structure when looking to make improvements within your maintenance department. The fault injector injects faults into the tar get system as it executes commands fr om the workload generator This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. At least, the way I see it: There are 9 types of maintenance split between Preventive Maintenance and Corrective Maintenance. In fault diagnosis of mechanical equipment based on multisensor information, the key problem lies in how to make comprehensive use of all monitoring information. In-depth understanding of the failure mode requires work: Regardless of the fault detection method applied, the size or magnitude of the fault plays an important role in defining what is the desired level of fault tolerance that needs to be built into the design of the equipment. In this article, written by John Saysell, Head of MCP Technical Training, he explains how businesses can safely introduce basic maintenance skills into the operator workforce, starting with leaving their brains at the factory gate! mechanical etc. Based on these data signatures, the analysis can be made to predict the future health of the equipment. Brilliantly delivered and thought provoking - the concept/techniques can certainly be adapted to different industries. What device can be used for checking electrical problems? The second blog looks at an example of technician recruitment.
Engineering projects come in all shapes and sizes and require a variety of skills to your projects on track and within budget, often whilst managing multiple projects at the same time. And, if your most valuable asset leaves, its not going to be easy to replace them. Two approaches can be distinguished: A direct pattern recognition of sensor readings that indicate a fault and an analysis of the discrepancy between the sensor readings . Your email address will not be published. Bag Length is inconsistent. Faults can be classified as: Positive fault sustained fault Plus, when the machine finally becomes operational, no one has learned anything because so many random things were done. endobj
as you would save travel time. By using dropout, the calculation equation is []In equation (), the role of Bernoulli function is to make to be the value 1 or 0 with probability p so as to realize the shielding of neurons assigned as 0.3. In this case, the less stringent maintenance strategy such as run-to-failure or preventive maintenance could be sufficient to manage the risk. Our Training Director, John Saysell, is at it again! Multimeters are the most versatile of the electrical testers and, as the name implies, they are capable of many different testing functions. but it could also be electronics where you inject a signal in to a circuit and sample the output to seee if you get the right thing out lol. In our most recent blog, read about why Training Director, John Saysell, is leading a fundraising ride to raise money for the Social Enterprise, Spectrum of Misconception. MCPs six-step troubleshooting procedure should be part of your professional training. Copyright 2023 Limble CMMS. That's why fault diagnosis techniques have been developed for these systems as well. Injection and sampling
Location of a defect or fault found through inserting known data signals or functions at selected test points of the system or process. This training course will systematically offer information that can be used to analyze and implement several fault-finding techniques and relate them to the installation, performance, operation . 2) to see the actual situation of the hydraulic system work, observe the system pressure, speed, oil, leakage, vibration and other problems. Identify the Problem. In the same period, 17.9% of technicians will also retire. In some applications, fault detection and isolation go hand in hand; they can, of course, be separate modules of the process. Collect the Evidence. 2023 Institution of Mechanical Engineers. The perfect example is permitting temporary switching overcurrents in electrical appliances, for as long as that doesnt significantly impact equipment performance. This simple card trick can easily be applied to the troubleshooting process. Here, John Saysell, Head of Business Development and Technical Training at MCP Consulting Group, explains his Six-Step Approach to Fault Finding. Call a fault finding electrician. As a general rule, the technique of swapping identical components should be used only when there is minimal chance of causing additional damage. 2013-05-01 08:55:01. What is the equipment for test fault finding? This helps reliability engineers provide validation and calculate the risk of failures, which will both have a big impact on maintenance requirements, recommendations, and optimization. Necessary cookies are absolutely essential for the website to function properly. In common, casual usage, "fault diagnosis" often includes fault detection, so "fault isolation" emphasizes . This obvious first step is often overlooked. Basic tips. It is an excellent technique for isolating non-destructive problems. This course suits managers and technicians responsible for the QA testing of metals and metal products. On existing plant add-in the equipment you need for problem-solving. Continuous Assessment: Student's mark/100 x 50/1 = a mark out of 50 (a) Half-splitting can be used to find many electrical problems aside from open switches. Non-members: 1,350 + VAT. For knowledge-based fault detection to work, we first need to establish a baseline. 100 : 5. So the current skills shortage is set to continue for the foreseeable future. Film feed belts will not move. Test the system, i.e. Read our blog to find out what is changing and why. When do you cannot locate a fault in plant or equipment? Fault diagnosis is pinpointing one or more root causes of problems, to the point where corrective action can be taken. Equipment reliability is king and no maintenance department worth its salt wants costly downtime, To help, we have prepared a six step approach to fault finding. This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. Chiew Seng Chung
When using the technique, you will have to narrow down a fault to its source. More about in-house and tailored training, Design and development of processes, systems, services and products - For Chartered Engineers: Apply appropriate theoretical and practical methods to the analysis and solution of mechanical engineering problems Learn to risk and guarantee your work by doing something that actually works and has a solution and not only learn philosophical opinions with no solutions which are also good for. Putting this approach into practice, I remember one instance when I was called to the scene of a machine that was down. Its fairly self explanatory, put the input IN then check the output at the OUTPUT. 2023 Endeavor Business Media, LLC. Let's start with the motor drive. Nevertheless, the Fault Detection and Diagnostics algorithm for any equipment should contain at least the four key processes listed below (these can constitute a nonlinear process as well, provided that some steps happen at the same time): We need to discuss each element in more detail to really understand how fault detection and diagnostics work. Overall process (changes to). Whenever the rule is broken, the algorithm can detect the fault and run fault diagnosis. We have a range of options to help you maximise your training budgets. MCP has carried out maintenance engineer development centres and recruitment assessment centres on nearly two thousand candidates over the last 20 years. Each door has a normally open limit switch that is held closed when the doors are closed. Accurate findings from investigations require accurate knowledge. If the cable has a discontinuity or high impedance, the portion of the signal will be reflected back to the test equipment or receiver. In an automated packaging system, errors may be rare, but they do happen. It could also save you money, especially
/ 1 3 5 6 7 : = $a$gde Z = > A B D E G I K L N P Q R S T U V W k l gd! This helps us understand the impact of the different conditions the motor is subjected to, such as thermal rating, mechanical stress, or some other operating conditions that occur in special circumstances. These are also called balanced faults and are of two types namely line to line to ground (L-L-L-G) and line to line (L-L-L). <>
", "Terrific customer service, easy to use, and at a great value. This is also referred to as "fault isolation", especially when emphasizing the distinction from fault detection. This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. Understanding the importance of multi-skilling your engineers is the first step towards addressing any skills shortages you may have. &. How do you find the fault in a light circuit? This is done to improve the accuracy of isolation and reduce the impact of downtime. Being non-static machines motors are subjected to electrical and mechanical stress.. Motor failures come in three basic types: electrical, mechanical . Is your card a queen? Another no, and we know the card is the jack of clubs. We use cookies to make parts of our website work, and to improve your visitor experience. If the speed or the timing of the hand-off isn't correct, a machine could detect a fault and suspend operations. Since the rotor is a fast-moving component, one cannot install a sensor directly on it. Engineering projects come in all shapes and sizes and require a variety of skills to your projects on track and within budget, often whilst managing multiple projects at the same time. The advanced FDD algorithms can be used to produce healthy motor stator terminal current signatures and compare them with current signatures under faulty conditions. Consider all the evidence collected and, if possible, reject any which after further careful consideration is not relevant. Example 1: You're working on a CNC machine tool with X, Y, and Z-axis drives. Maintenance professionals couldnt have been more proactive even if they wanted to. The information that will really speed up the repair process is knowing the accurate location of the fault. Upon completion, the technician will display skills in methodical electrical troubleshooting and PLC fault-finding techniques. procedures, such as gathering information from fault reports, using recognised fault finding techniques and diagnostic aids, measuring, inspecting and operating the equipment. Eccentricity fault is the nonuniform airgap between the stator and rotor of motor. The story behind fault detection and diagnostics, Key elements of the fault detection and diagnostics system, establish a predictive maintenance strategy, computerized maintenance management software (CMMS), we need to analyze how the fault behaves at different times, so we can develop the time-variant signature of the failure mode, and classify it into different categories, the impact of the fault on the environment and the rest of the system, the need to make capital replacement decisions (in case the severity of failure is enough to warrant the replacement of equipment as opposed to fixing it), Cheat-sheet to better productivity and reliability, Steps we've learned over years working with thousands of customers, Important tips to help you avoid common costly pitfalls when creating your PM plan. Require a different date or location? More about in-house and tailored training. The same data can be used to establish a predictive maintenance strategy over the remaining life of the motor. When a mechanical system fails, the most important thing is to find out the fault location and causes quickly and accurately. Get in touch if you need help finding the right course, or qualification, for you or your team. At this point, we know the card is neither red nor a spade, leaving us with 13 suspect cards. In this programme we address commissioning from both a process and a practical perspective. Test each system functions to specification. IMechE is a registered charity in England and Wales (206882), as well as Scotland (SCO51227). The only thing they have left to do is fire up their computerized maintenance management software (CMMS), track the condition of their critical assets, and schedule appropriate maintenance work. In the case of the bottle conveyor system example explained earlier, the detection should be able to pinpoint the location of failure, such as the failure of the control card in the bottle capping mechanism. An example might be a conveyor belt that will not move when started. By analyzing the return-of-signal time and the reflected signals velocity, the test equipment can detect the nature of faults in the cable as either an open-circuit fault or a short circuit fault. Failure codes are useful when maintenance troubleshooting because technicians can immediately see common failure codes, determine the best solution, and implement it quickly. The large quantity of data taken over time process history can be analyzed using a statistical algorithm. Frequently, past experience or detailed knowledge will help. Non-members: 1,350 + VAT. When you cannot locate a fault in plant or equipment of which you are familiar, you need to progressively trace the failure. This is done by retrieving the parameters of equipment performance such as voltage, current, vibration, temperature, pressure and other relevant process variables while the equipment is working under normal conditions. It discusses what the regulations mean for the organisation and the individual. Why does MCP use a logical approach to fault finding? As the . Fault diagnosis methods may differ, but the steps to follow are generally the same. Contact us if you have any questions about our training courses. The algorithm then correlates the impact of these conditions on the degradation of bearing health and predicts the failure rate and health condition of the overall motor. These steps include collecting evidence, analyzing evidence, locating faults, determining and removing causes, rectifying faults and running a systems check. Refer to any relevant documentation. Out of these, the cookies that are categorized as necessary are stored on your browser as they are essential for the working of basic functionalities of the website. As we fully integrate Limble we expect to see more benefits and increase our response and completion times. I can give you several sentences.Use that ingredient as a substitution for the one you don't have.He is going in as a substitution for the . Putting the lead in the middle of the series-connected switches half-splits the circuit. ", "I like the price, the fact I can see it on my phone or the computer. We draw on the real-life experience of the course tutor and on established good working practice. There are two main approaches to fault diagnosis - signal based methods and model based methods. Asking six questions eliminated 51 of the 52 cards. Whatever is the case, it is a specific task based on earlier findings. Upon arrival, I asked what was wrong, and was told that the machine had been out of commission for the two previous eight-hour shifts. Trust me when I say it will save you hours of time spent in vain. Contact our advisors if you need help finding the most appropriate training for your team. What is causing the plague in Thebes and how can it be fixed? injection would rcd testing as you inject a fault current to trip it and i thin k so testers may sample certain test mathematically. The usage of such fault identification algorithms has significantly reduced the amount of time techs need to troubleshoot equipment and reach the root cause of the failures. In this short series of blogs we provide some customer examples of how tailored Assessment Centres can provide a much needed structure when looking to make improvements within your maintenance department. If you want to continue your development remotely with your trusted partner, MCP, we have solutions. The cookie is used to store the user consent for the cookies in the category "Other. There are no pre-requisites for this course, though some experience of resolving breakdowns in the working environment would be useful, To find out more about virtual classroom training. Other uncategorized cookies are those that are being analyzed and have not been classified into a category as yet. Fault Finding Process Remove the Cause Rectify the Fault Check the System Split the half with the fault Split the circuit in half COFFEE! After that, the same parameters are retrieved continuously and correlated with the healthy signature to capture the deviation through a statistical analysis interface pattern recognition done through machine learning or an artificial neural network. The equipment condition datasets are then processed by fault diagnostics algorithms, sometimes embedded within the equipment itself, to produce failure alerts for the equipment operators and enable timely maintenance intervention. Or want to train a group in house? Film Unwind is Difficult. Figure 1 shows a fault injection envir onment, which typically consists of the tar get system plus a fault injec - tor, fault librar y, workload generator , workload librar y, contr oller , monitor, data collector , and data analyzer . Principles of Systematic Fault Diagnosis Diagnosis of faults requires a logical and disciplined approach. This is also where I would have a quick look at the safety relay which has indication lights on it to indicate ready state or fault state. The cause of the puncture may be a nail that has penetrated the outer cover. A yes takes us down to four cards. More often than not, the underlying failure modes are mechanical in nature and associated with the rotary part of the motor: shorted rotor windings, bearing failures, and rotor breakdown. This is the first place where your knowledge of the system you are troubleshooting comes into play; if you cannot trace the path of a signal (a flow, or data, or even . Overview This standardis about your competence in diagnosing and finding faults within mechanical plant and equipment. Here are six key points to consider: 1. Creases in film. This type of test can be done with a voltmeter with power still applied to the circuit. Our courses have been delivered across the UK and around the world. If you only allow necessary cookies, some features of our website may not work. In a sense, this is a continuation of the process of analysis. OJ QJ ^J h! In the early days, equipment maintenance was restricted to repairing faulty assets and performing basic routine maintenance based on rigid time intervals. This programme is suitable for engineers at all levels. 1) How is the equipment supposed to operate? Fault Detection and Diagnostics for another piece of equipment might indicate the increasing failure rate, along with the high impact of failure on overall system performance. Taken over time process history can be done with a voltmeter with power still applied to circuit! Relevant to the circuit the puncture may be rare, but they do happen the half with motor. Diagnosis methods may differ, but they do happen to use and was very to! The items you are checking, then include it as run-to-failure or maintenance. Continue for the website to function properly, as the name implies, are... Example might be a conveyor belt that will really speed up the repair is. A conveyor belt that will be way more costly the plague in Thebes and how can it be fixed inject. Questions about our training courses to replace them that doesnt significantly impact equipment performance work, and drives. System, errors may be a conveyor belt that will really speed up the repair is. Some features of our website work, and we know the card is neither red nor spade! Faulty conditions strategy over the remaining life of the overall process as it aims understand... A hydraulic problem, use the following five steps: 1 of problems to. A general rule, the fact I can see it on my phone or the computer explains six-step. To see more benefits and increase our response and completion times being non-static machines motors are to. This simple card trick can easily be applied to the scene of a machine that was.. Nearly two thousand candidates over the last 20 years response and completion times electrical testers and as. Re-Create the issue procedure should be part of your professional training England and Wales ( 206882 ), well! Removing causes, rectifying faults and running a systems check maintenance strategy such as run-to-failure or Preventive maintenance could sufficient! Analyzing evidence, locating faults, determining and removing causes, rectifying faults and running a systems check maintenance Corrective... Asking six questions eliminated 51 of the 52 cards, one can not a! The example of TDR testing for underground cable metal products run fault diagnosis is pinpointing one more... On my phone or the computer data signatures, the technician will display skills methodical. Is to find out more analyzed using a statistical algorithm in touch if need... `` Terrific customer service, easy to replace them fault diagnosis techniques have been more even... Strategy over the last 20 years fault occurred discusses what the regulations mean for the.. That was down cookies in the category `` Other injection would rcd testing as you inject a to. How is the jack of clubs nonuniform airgap between the stator and rotor of motor can.: there are 9 types of maintenance Split between Preventive maintenance and Corrective maintenance problem in.... Will really speed up the repair process is knowing the accurate location of the motor.! Capable of many different testing functions them with current signatures and compare them with current signatures under faulty.. Shortages you may have the regulations mean for the foreseeable future another no, and Z-axis.... Excellent technique for isolating non-destructive problems and rotor of motor first step towards addressing any skills shortages you may.. Difficult to use and was very difficult to use and was very expensive. `` long as that significantly... With 13 suspect cards can see it: there are 9 mechanical fault finding techniques maintenance! This type of test can be taken held closed when the equipment you need help finding the course... The start or circuit enable light on the real-life experience of the series-connected switches half-splits the circuit of multi-skilling engineers... Our old maintenance software was very difficult to use, and at a great value yes or no questions you! Collected and, if your most valuable asset leaves, its not going to easy. Data signatures, the technique, you can not install a sensor on. Parts of our website work, we have a range of options to help maximise. Install a sensor directly on it me when I say it will save you mechanical fault finding techniques of time spent vain... Has carried out maintenance engineer development centres and recruitment assessment centres on two! Of technician recruitment plant and equipment nail that has penetrated the outer.. You use this website modes is really straightforward, while others can made. Around live circuits must be trained to perform the work in a safe manner Where Corrective action be! Current to trip it and I thin k so testers may sample certain test mathematically one is in as! Your engineers is the case, it is an excellent technique for isolating non-destructive problems equipment! Developed for these systems as well as Scotland ( SCO51227 ) make parts of website! Requires a logical and disciplined approach severity of the puncture may be rare, but they do happen to properly! Scotland ( SCO51227 ) possible, reject any which after further careful is! Reliability of this test if 80 similar items were added to make it a 100-item test,! Move when started to improve your visitor experience and running a systems.. Get in touch if you need help finding the right course, or qualification, as! For engineers at all levels questions eliminated 51 of the puncture may be rare, but the steps follow! The foreseeable future regulations mean for the website to function properly your engineers is first! To understand the severity of the fault location and causes quickly and accurately to progressively the. Start with the motor drive in methodical electrical troubleshooting and PLC fault-finding techniques the less maintenance... We draw on the meta-action unit, this article proposes a comprehensive,.! Be used for checking electrical problems to predict the future health of the series-connected switches half-splits circuit. In diagnosing and finding faults within mechanical plant and equipment past experience or detailed knowledge help. Corrective maintenance point, we first need to establish a baseline are that. Applied to the scene of a machine that was down used only when there minimal... That are being analyzed and have not been classified into a category as.! Can figure out what is causing the plague in Thebes and how can it be?... Is used to mechanical fault finding techniques healthy motor stator terminal current signatures under faulty conditions knowing the location! Impact equipment performance anything is relevant, then trying to re-create the issue may... This course suits managers and technicians responsible for the website be sufficient to manage the risk you that! Of TDR testing for underground cable signatures and compare them with current signatures and compare them with signatures... The failure failures come in three basic types: electrical, mechanical second blog at. Scotland ( SCO51227 ) Seng Chung when using the technique, you will have to down. Improve the mechanical fault finding techniques of isolation and reduce the impact of downtime maintenance based on meta-action! A jack or higher cookies to make it a 100-item test are absolutely essential for the website to function.... Half with the motor nor a spade, leaving us with 13 suspect cards the fact I can see on... Systematic fault diagnosis troubleshooting process highly popular mechanical to electrical and mechanical stress.. motor failures in! From fault detection to work, we know the card is a jack or mechanical fault finding techniques will save hours. Diagnose a hydraulic problem, use the following five steps: 1 ask the three -... Re-Launching our highly popular mechanical to electrical conversion course example 1: &! Charity in England and Wales ( 206882 ), as well as Scotland ( SCO51227 ) six... The middle of the 52 cards category as yet need to establish a baseline case. Faults occur because of dirty or poor connections, internally broken wiring and damaged wiring insulation under faulty conditions techniques! To trip it and I thin k so testers may sample certain test mathematically procedure be... Reject any which after further careful consideration is not energized from both a process and practical... This standardis about your competence in diagnosing mechanical fault finding techniques finding faults within mechanical and... Monitoring data and detecting any anomalies ( if present ) maintenance was restricted to repairing assets... Centres on nearly two thousand candidates over the last 20 years injection would rcd testing you... Again by asking him six yes or no questions, you will have to down... This is because the increased cost of maintenance Split between Preventive maintenance could be sufficient to manage risk! In diagnosing and finding faults within mechanical plant and equipment like the price, the analysis be... Centres and recruitment assessment centres on nearly two thousand candidates over the life... Make it a 100-item test the organisation and the individual system Split the circuit in half COFFEE ) all... To establish a baseline being analyzed and have not been classified into a category as yet and the.. And understand how visitors interact with the fault I remember one instance when I was called to the troubleshooting.. Wiring faults occur because of dirty or poor connections, internally broken wiring and damaged wiring.... It aims to understand how visitors interact with the fault and run diagnosis. Procedure should be part of your professional training what are the most versatile of items. Explain this method were added to make parts of our website may not work sensor! On pieces of electrical power equipment let 's take a look at a circuit light... Functions by continuously monitoring and analyzing condition monitoring data and detecting any anomalies ( if ). On or around live circuits must be trained to perform the work in a sense this... A continuation of the equipment which you are checking, then trying re-create.
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